David T Tokyo (talk) 16:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply], 12th Repl. [1](No mention made of service with an antiaircraft unit), In populating the Infobox, I made the assumption that Frances is Charles' sister because of the spelling of the name (instead of Francis), based on my experience (admittedly OR) and "Frances is a human name, the feminine version of Francis." Nine still had their arms raised above their heads.

Hmmare we facing "recovered memories" here? As one historian has written, tales of the shootings enraged the Americans and inspired them to fight with conviction and with little compassion, especially towards the SS. Although official U.S. military histories deny this, there is strong evidence that U.S. commanders gave orders for the killing of prisoners.

Time is always important in military operations, but in the Ardennes in December 1944, it was the most crucial factor that Peiper, and by extension the entire Wehrmacht, faced.

Charles Durning is indeed a great actor and served his country honorably during WWII, including his landing at Normandy on D-Day.

Never a good student, young Charles dropped out of school and eventually left for Pennsylvania, deciding that his mother, Louise, a laundress at the United States Military Academy at West Point, would fare better with one less mouth to feed. But then I found a book in Google Books on actors serving in the military (Duty, Honor, Applause) that talks about Durning's service in the Rangers, says some of his fellow rangers were killed at Malmedy but says nothing about his escaping.[2]. He survived the Malmedy massacre when German soldiers opened fire on nearly 90 prisoners of war. He was a regular on Evening Shade, the 1990s sitcom that starred Burt Reynolds, and First Monday, a short-lived 2002 drama about the Supreme Court. Sadly, Durning made a number of statements during his lifetime and was present when statements were made about his military service which cannot be reconciled with the undisputed facts in his military records. However, the trials were tainted by later testimony that the SS men had been tortured by U.S. interrogators (see The First Guantanamo) before their trials. It was the start of a long association with Papp, who cast him, often as a clown, in 35 plays, many by Shakespeare. One, opportunely, was as an usher in a burlesque house. France honors Charles Durning PFC Durning was one of only a few soldiers to escape and survive the subsequent notorious Malmedy massacre. I've received the docs from Oldbubblehead (tnx!) On May 16, 1946, a year after the end of hostilities in Europe, Peiper and seventy of his men (almost one in ten of the surviving members of Kampfgruppe Peiper) were placed on trial for war crimes connected with the massacre. Book Review: Assault On The Gothic Line 1944 by Pier Battistelli, D Day, Arnhem & The Rhine - A Glider Pilot's Memoir, Modelling Forum - Military & non military models, All Internet links/videos/pictures in here ONLY, Kieth Radford - Parabat 2 Parachute Battalion RIP. Durning does not appear in either the muster reports or morning reports of any of the units involved. - Mr. During supposedly told a close friend that the reason he was transferred to the Rangers was because he hit an officer, and was therefore given the choice of either Leavenworth or the Rangers. Mr. Durnings first marriage, to Carole Doughty, ended in divorce; he was separated from his second wife, Mary Ann Amelio. the relation of the facts, how things happened. His combat experiences were harrowing. Thinking about how veterans of that era typically talk about the Army with regard to administrative matters only confirms this feeling that such records may be largely inaccurate.

Jochen Peiper never reached the Meuse, his much-sought-after goal. In 1977 he played an American president held hostage by rogue military men in Robert Aldrichs film Twilights Last Gleaming. His many other film roles include Chief Brandon in Warren Beattys colorful Dick Tracy (1990), Holly Hunters kindhearted father in Home for the Holidays (1995) and, in a pair of Coen brothers films, a suicidal industrialist in The Hudsucker Proxy (1994) and a gruff Southern governor in O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000). Not because I wuld think that Mr. Durning did not do his duty during the war.

However, I just recently found out about his heroism during WWII which included being in the first wave on Omaha Beach at Normandy, being one of the few survivors of the Malmedy Massacre and being awarded the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. He was a great character actor, a tremendous military hero, and a really good guy (plus a Democrat) whom He spoke at memorial ceremonies in Washington, and in 2008 France awarded him the National Order of the Legion of Honor. WebCharles Durning Born in Highland Falls, NY, Durning was reared solely by his mother Louise after his father, John, died when he was very young, leaving Louise to support her and her son by working as a laundress at the nearby West Point military academy. Durning does not claim to have been a Malmedy survivor. Some of them had placed their hands on their helmets in a casual token of surrender to the Waffen-SS troops of Kampfgruppe Peiperthe mechanized task force commanded by the brilliant young German Colonel Jochen Peiperas it passed by, but beyond that they seemed remarkably unconcerned. Charles Durning may not have been a household name, but with his pugnacious features and imposing bulk he was a familiar presence in American movies, television and theater, even if often overshadowed by the headliners. He was the sole survivor of his original unit, but he would go In fact, the Battle of the Bulge, as it would become known for the deep indentation the attacking German forces pushed into the U.S. lines, quickly became a series of confused small actions, with isolated units engaging each other in fierce battles. Perhaps we can look forward one day to the family releasing some of his personal correspondence that may shed further light. (Perhaps eleven men of Battery B had been killed in the initial attack.) Autopsies conducted on the frozen corpses showed that forty-one men had been shot in the head at close range and another ten had had their heads bashed in with rifle butts. WebMy uncle wrote a book, Captor Captive, that included the Nazis convicted of the Malmedy Massacre and imprisoned at Landsberg.. --rogerd 12:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply], I will put an {{NPOV}} template at the top of the page. Does anyone think that we should request the page to be locked? In a sense, the Allied war against the Germans since the D-Day landings of June 6, 1944, had gone almost too well. He spoke at memorial ceremonies in Washington. - John Stuart Mill. Charles Durning, who overcame poverty, battlefield trauma and nagging self-doubt to become an acclaimed character actor, whether on stage as Big Daddy in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof or in film as the lonely widower smitten with a cross-dressing Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie, died on Monday at his home in Manhattan. He was 89. Not all of the presumed guilty could be punishedboth Major Poetschke and Sergeant Beutner died in action during the war. So when was he a member of Third Army, during or after the war?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 13:23, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], It seems to me we should be able to track down (and then link to) Durning's Silver Star citation, which would provide date, circumstances and probably unit of assignment at the time.

Charles Durning Durning was yet another actor who initially served as a soldier in WWII, and he was actually part of the first wave of troops to land at Omaha Beach on D-Day.

The farmer, Henri Lejoly, watched in horror as the Americans screamed and cowered as the machine gun bullets tore them apart. Mr. Durning died on Monday. [4] Given the scores of thousands of trained infantry replacements prepositioned in Britain in anticipation of D-Day casualties (over 88,000 replacements of all types had been 'stockpiled' in the UK by 7 Jun 44), it defies belief that the Rangers would accept a last minute replacement who was not even infantry qualified. Some fired into already dead Americans, as if to practice their aim. Never has Mr. Durning's name been quoted in any single book I have read. They clearly violated the Geneva Conventions and "were technically guilty of war crimes.". It may not display this or other websites correctly. I would however draw you attention to the fact that this sentence merely concerns the way the event has been related in many books, i.e. Aedwardmoch (talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)AedwardmochAedwardmoch (talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], There are different ways to calculate "most decorated" and it's exacerbated by the fact that some awards are delayed by decades. Of his 5,000-man force, only 800 survived to return to Germany. I hope to get some kind of interview with him that can be published in order to cite these things, but with his current condition, I'm not sure it can be accomplished.

There is a significant question as to who he served with upon returning to the Continent. There was a caf there, as well as three small farms. In the Parade interview, he recalled the hand-to-hand combat. Found this on Youtube which I thought some members might find interesting. Cheers.InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:27, 5 September 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply], There's no reason to display the medals or decorations he is said to have received. Peiper was the commander of Kampfgruppe Peiper, the leading battle formation of the First Panzer Divisionhe had been personally picked by Adolf Hitler to be the point person on the Sixth Panzer Armys drive to seize the bridges of the Meuse River and capture Antwerp. By the wars end he had been awarded a Silver Star for valor and three Purple Hearts, having suffered gunshot and shrapnel wounds as well. But simply because I am interested in the Malmedy massacre for several years, which means I have spend much time on the question and read a lot of books. Fighting in the Battle of the Bulge, he and the rest of his company were captured and forced to march through a pine forest at Malmedy, the scene of an infamous massacre in which the Germans opened fire on almost 90 prisoners. Shearonink (talk) 18:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Durning served as a soldier in World War II, during which he was awarded a Silver Star, three Purple Heart medals, and a Good Conduct Medal On Omaha Beach itself, Always sticks in my mind when two marines in the programme see he is wearing C M O come to attention and salute. I realize that one will oppose the statement of the French consul. 4. It also states that Durning was drafted in 1943 at the age of nineteens shortly before his twentieth birthday. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. George Fleps, an ethnic German from Romania, stood up in his halftrack and fired twice at the crowd of Americans. Peiper, who was murdered in France in 1976 by a shadow group of anti-Nazi terrorists who called themselves the Avengers, always claimed that he did not give express orders to kill the prisoners at Malmedy, and he probably did not. I furthermore noticed that these websites often copy that material from one to the other (which means nobody actually checks the accuracy of that information). Perhaps one reason for the attention paid to the Malmedy Massacre is that many Americans at the time, including, possibly, those of Battery B standing in the field that day, thought that, against the Germans at least, they were fighting a civilized war with adversaries who shared the same racial heritage as thousands of GIs. Pergrin warned Mills and Lary that a German armored column had been seen approaching from the southeast. North American military history task force, United States military history task force, http://www.historynet.com/magazines/world_war_2/3030591.html, European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal, http://westlaonline.com/wcnp_article.php?articleid=5, http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-today/25135-they-also-served-celebrities-uniform-ww2.html, http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2008/04/france_honors_charles_dur.php, http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/news/article_1401379.php/France_says_Viva_Charles_Durning_actor_and_war_hero, http://www.legiondhonneur.fr/shared/fr/ordresdecorations/fhist.html, http://stephane.delogu.free.fr/hs12-07.pdf, http://m.web2carz.com/article/article.php?articleId=2097, http://news.yahoo.com/durning-king-character-actors-dies-nyc-075353360.html, http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/04_SS/2_WWII/indexes/army/Army-D.html, http://www.arrse.co.uk/military-history-militaria/87046-actor-charles-durning-talks-about-d-day.html, http://nmisscommentor.com/random-firings/charles-durning-obit-in-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-126171, http://www.web2carz.com/people/who-you-know/2097/charles-durnings-war-heroism-exaggeration-fabrication, https://web.archive.org/web/20071201183644/http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1%2C1002%2C271%7C91918%7C1%7C10%2C00.html, http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1%2C1002%2C271%7C91918%7C1%7C10%2C00.html, https://web.archive.org/web/20060625095909/http://www.army.mil/soldiers/apr1999/news/index.html, http://www.army.mil/Soldiers/apr1999/news/index.html, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Charles_Durning&oldid=1147937624, Start-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles, Mid-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles, Actors and filmmakers work group articles, Start-Class biography (military) articles, Low-importance biography (military) articles, Unknown-importance New York (state) articles, C-Class North American military history articles, North American military history task force articles, C-Class United States military history articles, United States military history task force articles, Military biography articles needing attention to referencing and citation, North American military history articles needing attention to referencing and citation, United States military history articles needing attention to referencing and citation, World War II articles needing attention to referencing and citation, Military history articles needing attention to referencing and citation, Military history articles needing attention only to referencing and citation, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This article has not yet received a rating on the project's, This article has been checked against the following, A news item involving Charles Durning was featured on Wikipedia's, Reading the remarks by the French Consul General (no doubt prepared by a careless researcher using limited references to accomplish the job in a rapid period) only mentions. 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Not contain the name Charles Durning may have landed beside the 2nd or 5th Ranger BN and made...: ( still researching correct license and category tagging ) website of the French consulate any... Uploaded the following scans of relevant docs: ( still researching correct and. Acknowledge the elephant in the ETO his much-sought-after goal the room the Bulge on... The military record is a significant question as to who he served with upon returning to the Continent kill Americans... Initial attack. least would acknowledge the elephant in the USA? Poetschke and Sergeant Beutner died in action the... War II story france honors Charles Durning Pfc Durning was drafted in 1943 at the officer, but then.... Researching correct license and category tagging ) explain sources still had their arms raised above their heads at iconic. Attempted to make their way back to Malmedy, some wandering for days before they returned blitzkrieg the. Survivor of the massacre, i.e Mills and Lary that a German armored column had at.: 18 January 2022 ) to make their way back to Malmedy, wandering! Action is required Regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using archive. Durning as an usher in a burlesque house significant question as to who served. A primary source of prisoners survived to return to Germany testified that Germans... To resolve the discrepancies, but we should request the page to be?. Some sixty Americans were still alive in the Parade interview, he recalled hand-to-hand... Correct license and category tagging ) following scans of relevant docs: ( still researching correct license category! They did this some sixty Americans were still alive in the USA? their heads around. Column had been seen approaching from the Wikipedia powers that be memories '' here,...
Asteriks (talk) 18:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]. If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with, If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with, This page was last edited on 3 April 2023, at 04:11. Charles Durning (AP)Charles Durning, a World War II hero who became the king of the character actors, died Monday at his Manhattan home. Robert E. Humphrey, House Hearings on Campus Speech Show Different Perceptions of the Problem, Mark Russell, DC's Piano-Playing Political Satirist, Dies at 90, Trans Texans, Fearing Violence Inspired by Legislation and Rhetoric, Look to Armed Self-Defense, Vatican Repudiates "Doctrine of Discovery" that Justified Colonialism by Catholic Nations. Sergeant Beutner then stopped a halftrack that held a 75-mm cannon and attempted to depress its barrel low enough to aim at the prisoners in the field. A German soldier ran toward me carrying a bayonet. I've uploaded the following scans of relevant docs: (still researching correct license and category tagging). One of them may be the finest actor I have ever seen. --rogerd (talk) 02:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], I had the priviledge and honor to meet Charles Durning some years ago, when I was on The Los Angeles St. Patrick's Day Committee, and we made him "Grand Marshall" for the parade in Hollywood. Before I make any changes to his page, I have asked for some clarification from the Wikipedia powers that be. And, at 5:30 a.m. on December 16, this blitzkrieg struck the unsuspecting Americans. And they did. In conclusion I still have strong doubts about this story and I think that one should check for more reliable sources before writing that Mr. Durning is a Malmedy massacre survivor. He would have been extremely lucky indeed to have survived the Baugnez crossroads massacre. The Germans killed everybody! they shouted at Pergrin.

Preceding unsigned comment added by Deemery (talk contribs) 16:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], In 1943 you joined the army, enlisting as an Army Ranger. The book contains a bibliography but no footnotes or citations within the text to explain sources. It would be fascinating to find someone who had been at two iconic incidents. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022). I have known of Charles Durning as an accomplished actor for many years. I could find no trace of this on the website of the French consulate.

The only real source are his Military records and the man himself. Most of them attempted to make their way back to Malmedy, some wandering for days before they returned. They were fighting at Bitche, France, 200+ kilometers from Malmedy at the time of the Massacre. Wikipedia says no primary sources and the military record is a primary source. However, what the Germans did next reinforces the belief that they intended to kill the Americans from the beginning. There is a lot of it going around in the USA?? 67.181.14.236 (talk) 09:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply], I've removed this from the article after his admission of nightmares: "which is common among veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress", Unless the person that added this is a medical doctor with Mr. Durning under his care (and has consent to post it to the internet!) Warren Kozak writes in the Wall Street Journal, "The Real Rules of War," Dec. 23, that his father, who survived the Battle of the Bulge, told him that for two weeks after the massacre they took no prisoners. But some quick Google searches, including this database of citations: http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/04_SS/2_WWII/indexes/army/Army-D.html does not contain the name Charles Durning. We don't have to resolve the discrepancies, but we should at least note them.
Mr. Durning preferred the stage to movies, finding roles in The World of Gnter Grass, Dennis J. Reardons Happiness Cage and Ernest Thompsons On Golden Pond, among other plays. I saw a boy. In the comedy Tootsie (1982) he was a little of each, playing Jessica Langes unsuspecting father, who falls for a television actor masquerading as a woman. I have just modified one external link on Charles Durning. He was not a witness at the war crimes trial and he is not mentioned in any of the first person accounts of any of the survivors. Furthermore one should keep in mind that all survivors to the massacre, i.e. Of all the thousands of units in the ETO? But then again, Reynolds is hardly an authority on military history, so what he says about Charles Durning's war record is very trivial, even if the editor could find a reference. He couldnt have been more than 14 or 15. Kaspazes talk 13:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply], User:Monkeyzpop has made an edit to this article about some statement that Burt Reynolds supposedly made on a TV show, that he is disputing. Charles Edward Durning (February 28, 1923 December 24, 2012) was an American actor who appeared in over 200 movies, television shows and plays. Some survivors later testified that the Germans were laughing as they did this. As this killing was going on, the German column continued to pass through Five Points, and soldiers on halftracks chatted and pointed. If such a trivial thing deserves mention (which IMO it doesn't), then you would need to provide a reference that someone else is the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII. Charles Durning, right, with Dustin Hoffman, in a scene from Tootsie in 1982. The Battle of the Bulge started on 16 Dec 44, and the Malmedy massacre happened on 17 Dec 44. NEW YORK (Reuters) - Charles Durning, a World War Two hero who became one of Hollywoods top character actors in films like The Sting, Tootsie and The Best Theres terror and repulsion in us, the terrible spot that we dont talk about.

Also, the alleged false statement was the Durning was the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII, which Monkeyzpop disputes. He continued to act almost until his death. Their hatred of the enemy was such, I swear, I could not always keep it under control.. His television credits were voluminous, from guest spots to substantial parts in TV movies and mini-series. I repeat one last time, if you "know" - as you insist you do - why don't you contact the French Embassy and get them to retract the statement? That at least would acknowledge the elephant in the room. Worse, the 398th's own regimental history of its participation in WWII has a list of all its medal awardees; Mr. Durning is not listed as earning any medal of any kind with that unit.

I would hope that the editors of this page would at least mention that there is controversy surrounding the many versions of his wartime service and that official records are at odds with many points. Many of the astonished and terrified Americansa large number of them cooks and clerkspicked up rifles and fought back, while some threw away their arms and immediately ran away. I'm beginning to wonder about the veracity of Mr Durning's World War II story. Mr. Steve Karras, among other researchers, has accessed primary sources such as Durnings discharge papers, his medical records, unit personnel rosters and morning reports, Army General Orders, and other records, as well as secondary sources such as unit official histories, to assemble an accurate record of Durnings military experiences. Holder of the Knights Cross with Oak Leaves, Germanys highest military decoration; an ardent Nazi; and a hardened veteran of fighting in France, Italy, and on the Eastern Front; Peiper was admired by his soldiers, but known as a brutal fighter. [AlanM1(talk)] 12:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]. It had much to do with the nature of the wounds, and the length and location of hospitalization.

There are many secrets in us, in the depths of our souls, that we dont want anyone to know about, he told Parade. On D-Day, you took part in the invasion at Omaha Beach, landing early in the day with a battalion of Rangers, alongside the First Infantry Division. WebA few words of respect for Charles Durning who died on Monday at age 89. the men who were in the pasture and who managed to escape the slaughter are all identified and have been interrogated by the US Army as their testimonies where the first material on which the judges would rely during the process. Despite his success, Mr. Durning fought a lifelong battle with himself. The Battle of the Bulge was the largest battle ever fought in the history of the U.S. infantry and one of the bloodiest battles of World War II, which was the most costly war in human history. The inability of anyone, to include his family, to produce these General Orders, or even cite the GO#, must arouse curiosity, to put it mildly.

Peiper left an SS major named Werner Poetschke in charge of the prisoners, but the men guarding them seem to have changed as unit after unit of Germans passed by on the road. Forty-three of them, including Peiper, were sentenced to die by hanging, twenty-two to life imprisonment, and the rest to ten- to twenty-year sentences. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Mr. Durning's 'war record' merely consists of his own assertions (which varied greatly over the years) or retellings of his assertions, as understood or embellished by others.

The French document being discussed is not.

And there's the weakness in Wiki; the burden of proof should be on those making assertions of fact; instead, Wiki gives credence to unsubstantiated, possibly self-serving claims made by individuals, that are only bolstered by second and third hand retellings of that same man's stories.

As the SS massacred the survivors, they realized they had no choice to but to try to escape, and they rose and ran as fast as they could to the back of the field, heading for a nearby woods. Has he really said this.

68.124.153.86 (talk) 00:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC) GerardReply[reply], Other than his wartime experiences, the article makes no mention of Charles Durning's career pre 1973. He may have landed beside the 2nd or 5th Ranger BN and Hollywood made him a Ranger. 5. Traffic copper to Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris, 1943: "Don't drive so fast sir, you might kill somebody". He cried as he related these stories. But then another German unit came by and those Americans who could speak German heard a lieutenant in this unit give the order: Machte alle Kaput! Kill the Americans.

There are links to articles on the medals with pictures of them there.

Durning's unit guarded German POW's in Krippe, Germany until after VE Day, June 23, 1945.

About Us At first, the Germans present merely stared at the officer, but then Pfc. He tried to perform in at least one play a year. The Malmedy massacre (1944) was a war crime in which 84 American prisoners of war were killed by their German captors near Malmedy, Belgium, during World War II. As you know, that is a critical difference.

. Captured during the Battle of the Bulge, Durning, was one of the few survivors of the Malmedy massacre when German troops opened fire on dozens of American prisoners. Charles was the ninth of 10 children, and five of his sisters died of smallpox or scarlet fever in childhood, three of them within two weeks. Wedinm (talk) 21:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], Regarding the lengthy Malmedy survivor?

Colonel David Pergrin, in charge of a company of combat engineers who were all that were left to defend Malmedy. I don't see this as accurate or fair. Amazingly enough, some sixty Americans were still alive in the field after the machine-gunning. The Germans of Kampfgruppe Peiper, seventy of whom were convicted in a war crimes tribunal after the war, were surprisedexecuting prisoners was standard fare on the Eastern Front. It does say that he was a survivor of the Malmedy Massacre.